Legislature(1993 - 1994)

01/27/1993 01:40 PM Senate HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
     SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE                    
                        January 27, 1993                                       
                            1:40 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Senator Steve Rieger, Chairman                                               
  Senator Bert Sharp, Vice-Chairman                                            
  Senator Loren Leman                                                          
  Senator Jim Duncan                                                           
  Senator Judy Salo                                                            
  Senator Johnny Ellis                                                         
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator Mike Miller                                                          
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  SENATE BILL NO. 53                                                           
  "An  Act  annulling  changes  made  by  certain  regulations                 
  adopted  by  the Department  of  Health and  Social Services                 
  relating to funding  of abortion services under  the general                 
  relief  medical  program;  and  providing  for  an effective                 
  date."                                                                       
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
  SB 53 - No previous action to record.                                        
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  Jay Livey, Deputy Commissioner                                               
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P.O. Box 110601                                                              
  Juneau, ALaska 99811-0601                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Representative Terry Martin                                                  
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Ida Barnack                                                                  
  Alaskans for Life                                                            
  P.O. Box 32186                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99803-2186                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Ted Deats                                                                    
  Box 87                                                                       
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Lonna Fagan                                                                  
  9622 Eagle Street                                                            
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Phillip Gray                                                                 
  4410 North Douglas Highway                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Robert Head                                                                  
  P.O. Box 21218                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Sid Heidersdorf                                                              
  Box 020658                                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Robin Stevens                                                                
  P.O. Box 33637                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  John Lindback, President                                                     
  Juneau Coalition for Pro-Choice                                              
  4467 Mountainside Drive                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Joan Heidersdorf                                                             
  Box 020658                                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Beverly Berdahl                                                              
  P.O. Box 8303                                                                
  Nikiski, Alaska 99635                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Ann Pence                                                                    
  P.O. Box 43                                                                  
  Kasilof, Alaska 99610                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Rebecca Perry                                                                
  HC 2, Box 562                                                                
  Kasilof, Alaska 99610                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 53.                                     
                                                                               
  Ruth Ewig, Secretary                                                         
  Citizens for Excellence in Education                                         
                                                                               
                                                                               
  2325 30th Avenue                                                             
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99701                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Judy Scully                                                                  
  Interior Christian Action Council                                            
  875 Haida Lane                                                               
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99712                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Anne Harrison                                                                
  3270 Rosie Creek Road                                                        
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99709                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Laurie Otto                                                                  
  2396 Waldron Drive                                                           
  Anchorage, Alaska 99507                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support SB 53.                             
                                                                               
  Bonnie L. Jack                                                               
  1063 West 20th Avenue                                                        
  Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Myrna Maynard                                                                
  2237 Forest Park Drive                                                       
  Anchorage, Alaska 99517                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Ileen Self, Chair                                                            
  Coalition of Alaskans for Choice - Anchorage                                 
  5808 Miley Drive                                                             
  Anchorage, Alaska 99504                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Thomas Moffit, Executive Director                                            
  Alaskans Right to Life                                                       
  Box 201586                                                                   
  Anchorage, Alaska 99520                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against abortions.                            
                                                                               
  Harriet Papke                                                                
  P.O. Box 2810                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Claudine Flowers                                                             
  1014 Hillfair Court                                                          
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Ramon Flowers                                                                
  1014 Hillfair Court                                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Sandra Johns                                                                 
  P.O. Box 3736                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Mary Clare Foecke                                                            
  P.O. Box 3736                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Eileen Mullen                                                                
  P.O. Box 1394                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Margaret Heneghan                                                            
  P.O. Box 3074                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Mary Lentfer                                                                 
  P.O. Box 2617                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Karen Hogan                                                                  
  P.O. Box 2228                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Kim Smith, Director                                                          
  Katchimak Bay Family Planning Clinic                                         
  P.O. Box 3235                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Susan Kerns                                                                  
  P.O. Box 984                                                                 
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Duane Christensen                                                            
  P.O. Box 4123                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Lori Christensen                                                             
  P.O. Box 4123                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Marie Luchaco                                                                
  P.O. Box 3615                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Terri Bramel                                                                 
  P.O. Box 2963                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Paula Setterquist                                                            
  552 Grubstake                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99503                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Bonnie Glover                                                                
  HC 67, Box 34                                                                
  Anchor Point, Alaska 99556                                                   
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Kathy Polk                                                                   
  P.O. Box 020196                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Kathy Dennis                                                                 
  P.O. Box 533                                                                 
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  John Monagle                                                                 
  P.O. Box 210527                                                              
  Auke Bay, Alaska 99821                                                       
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Sherrie Goll                                                                 
  The Alaska Women's Lobby                                                     
  P.O. Box 22156                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Martha Devereau                                                              
  2182 South Tongass Highway                                                   
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Teresa Crevier                                                               
  1123 Black Bear Road                                                         
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Elinore Jacobsen                                                             
  2125 Second Avenue                                                           
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Heather Muench                                                               
  Box 6811                                                                     
  Ketchikan, Alaska 9901                                                       
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Charles Gass                                                                 
  719 Grant Street                                                             
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Virginia Phillips                                                            
  404 Lake Street, # 2-D                                                       
  Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Mary Soltis                                                                  
  615 Degroff Street                                                           
  Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Alice Johnstone                                                              
  Sitkans For Choice                                                           
  213 Shotgun Alley                                                            
  Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Natasha Calvin                                                               
  Sitka Coalition for Women's Rights                                           
  Box 2966                                                                     
  Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Charles Horan                                                                
  Sitkans for Life                                                             
  Box 2003                                                                     
  Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Ernest Line, Member                                                          
  Mat-Su Coalition For Choice                                                  
  2645 Whispering Woods                                                        
  Wasilla, Alaska 99654                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Katie Hurley                                                                 
  P.O. Box 970167                                                              
  Wasilla, Alaska 99687                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Randall Burns, Executive Director                                            
  Alaska Affiliation of the American                                           
    Civil Liberties Union                                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  1079 Potlatch Circle                                                         
  Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Donna Hurdle, Executive Director                                             
  Planned Parents of Alaska                                                    
  406 West Fireweed                                                            
  Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Tom Swanner                                                                  
  240 Pettis Road                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Joanne Swanner                                                               
  240 Pettis Road                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Pamela Beilfuss                                                              
  11241 Dave Lane                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Lorraine Ferrell                                                             
  4358 Rendezvous Circle                                                       
  Anchorage, Alaska 99504                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Leila Wise                                                                   
  P.O. Box 244034                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska 99524                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Carol Nilson                                                                 
  309 Shannon Drive                                                            
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99701                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Evelyn Frisk                                                                 
  Fairbanks, Alaska                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Kris Grose                                                                   
  President of Alaska Right to Life                                            
    of the Interior                                                            
  1111 Eliz Street                                                             
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99705                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified neutrally on SB 53.                           
                                                                               
  Susan Flocke                                                                 
  315 "E" Street                                                               
  Douglas, Alaska 99824                                                        
                                                                               
                                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Pat Denny                                                                    
  526 Seward Street                                                            
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Aleshia Porter                                                               
  1834 Stanford                                                                
  Anchorage, Alaska                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 53.                          
                                                                               
  Deborah Luper                                                                
  1217 Crescent Drive                                                          
  Anchorage, Alaska 99508                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Carl Sturman                                                                 
  135 North Leibrock Circle                                                    
  Soldotna, Alaska 99611                                                       
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Carole Hoover                                                                
  8922 Trio                                                                    
  Juneau, Alaska                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Elmer Lindstrom, Special Assistant                                           
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P.O. Box 110601                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on SB 53.                            
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-2, SIDE A                                                            
  Number 001                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN  RIEGER called  the  Senate Health,  Education, and                 
  Social Services (HESS)  Committee meeting  to order at  1:40                 
  p.m.   He noted  that there  were several  members from  the                 
  House in attendance.                                                         
  The only order  of business was  SB  53 (ANNULLING  ABORTION                 
  FUNDING   REGULATIONS),  sponsored   by   the  Senate   HESS                 
  Committee.  Chairman  Rieger explained  the contents in  the                 
  committee member's packets.                                                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR LEMAN informed the committee that he objects to  the                 
  introduction of SB 53.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 053                                                                   
                                                                               
  The  first  person   to  testify   was  JAY  LIVEY,   Deputy                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Commissioner, Department of Health and  Social Services.  He                 
  indicated that in the member's packets  is a fiscal note and                 
  a position  paper  in opposition  to the  legislation.   Mr.                 
  Livey indicated  that there are people from  the Division of                 
  Medical  Assistance  who  would  be   happy  to  answer  any                 
  questions.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 093                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TERRY MARTIN  referred to an audit  report by                 
  the  Division  of  Legislative Audit  of  the  Department of                 
  Health and  Social  Services, and  said he  believed it  was                 
  important  to find  out what the  department had  been doing                 
  regarding abortions.  He indicated he had been told that the                 
  report was  perhaps misleading  and that  there hadn't  been                 
  almost 1,200 abortions  each year.   By  Budget and  Audit's                 
  calculation, they have indicated that  the abortion rate has                 
  escalated  over  the  last  year.    Representative   Martin                 
  indicated that in  1992, the live  birth rate in Alaska  was                 
  approximately 9,900.   He explained the state  is paying for                 
  over 1,100 abortions which  he believes is way out  of line.                 
  Representative  Martin  discussed  statistics  in the  audit                 
  report.  He indicated that it  is his understanding that the                 
  state pays a  substantial amount of money  for post syndrome                 
  abortion people who are having psychological problems  after                 
  they realize what  they have done.  If the state is going to                 
  pay for  psychological  problems  after  the  fact,  perhaps                 
  psychological evaluations should be allowed before the fact.                 
  He thanked the committee for listening to his testimony.                     
                                                                               
  Number 190                                                                   
                                                                               
  IDA BARNACK,  Alaskans for Life, explained  her organization                 
  is  a  nonsectarian organization  with  the primary  goal of                 
  promoting respect for human life.  She urged support for the                 
  administration's  regulations  limiting abortion  funding to                 
  therapeutic abortions only.   She explained  that it is  her                 
  organization's  view   that  the   regulations  adopted   by                 
  Department  of  Health  and  Social  Services  covers  every                 
  possible  reason for  justifying  abortion  based on  health                 
  concerns.    Ms.  Barnack  continued  to give  testimony  in                 
  opposition   to   SB   53,  and   urged   support   for  the                 
  administration's regulations.                                                
                                                                               
  TED DEATS, representing himself and his twenty-one month old                 
  son,  testified against  SB 53.   He  discussed  the various                 
  stages of development  and the birth of his  son.  On behalf                 
  of his son, he urged that  the state protect unborn children                 
  under nine months of age.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 254                                                                   
                                                                               
  LONNA FAGAN, representing herself, testified against SB  53.                 
  She said  the regulations  don't put  a burden  on women  as                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  abortions will be paid  for if there is a good  reason.  Ms.                 
  Fagan said that people who are pro-abortion honestly want to                 
  protect women and want to do the right thing for women,  but                 
  are deeply mislead.  She  said she believes in choice  and a                 
  women has the choice  to choose when a  life will begin  and                 
  birth control gives  that choice.  Ms.  Fagan explained that                 
  she  is the mother  of three daughters and  is trying to get                 
  them to  understand that for  every choice  they make,  they                 
  will  have  consequences to  deal  with.    There should  be                 
  education in  high school  relating birth  control and  what                 
  abortion truly is.  She  continued to give testimony against                 
  the legislation.                                                             
                                                                               
  PHILLIP GRAY spoke in  opposition to SB 53 and  explained he                 
  doesn't think public money should be used to fund abortions.                 
  Mr. Gray said he  believes that abortions are  morally wrong                 
  except in rare cases such as to protect the life the mother.                 
  He said  he supports  Governor Hickel's  termination of  the                 
  funding for abortions.                                                       
                                                                               
  ROBERT HEAD was next to testify on SB 53.  He asked that the                 
  committee seriously evaluate the  repeal of the  regulations                 
  and become closely acquainted with  the actual procedure and                 
  result of  abortion.   Mr. Head  indicated that  he strongly                 
  opposes the passage of SB 53.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 343                                                                   
                                                                               
  SID  HEIDERSDORF was next  to testify  on SB  53.   He asked                 
  Chairman Rieger if the Senate HESS Committee will be holding                 
  additional  hearings.   CHAIRMAN RIEGER  explained that  the                 
  Senate HESS Committee is the first committee of referral and                 
  indicated that there  are two  other committees of  referral                 
  where public hearings  will be held.   Mr. Heidersdorf  said                 
  abortion is like no other subject and the issue  cuts to the                 
  heart of who we are and what we  stand for.  People have the                 
  right to be heard on the subject.   He noted that the Hickel                 
  Administration  held   hearings  in   three  locations   and                 
  teleconferenced to seventeen other locations, hearing almost                 
  9,000 people.  Mr. Heidersdorf discussed the question, "What                 
  is abortion?"   He informed the committee that his testimony                 
  is  in the form of a film which lasts seven minutes entitled                 
  "Hard Truth."   The film faces the issue of abortion head on                 
  and  is  very  graphic.    There  being  no  film  equipment                 
  available  at  the  hearing,  Senator  Leman, later  in  the                 
  meeting,  offered  to show any interested  committee members                 
  the film in his office.                                                      
                                                                               
  ROBIN STEVENS testified  against SB  53.  He  said he  would                 
  like to address the issue of rights and choice.  Mr. Stevens                 
  said  he  believes  in  choice before  sex  and  rights  for                 
  everyone.  Once  a child is  on the way,  there should be  a                 
  right for the child  to be protected.  He  indicated that he                 
  has a nineteen month old boy.   It is inappropriate for  the                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  State of Alaska to pay for abortions, Mr. Stevens concluded.                 
                                                                               
  Number 435                                                                   
                                                                               
  JOHN LINDBACK,  President, Juneau Coalition  for Pro-Choice,                 
  introduced  three  board  members  to  the  committee.    He                 
  indicated  his  organization  has  been   in  existence  for                 
  approximately a year and includes more than 400 people.  Mr.                 
  Lindback  explained  that through  the  use  of  a mail  out                 
  survey, they have  compiled a  database of 3,200  pro-choice                 
  women in Juneau.  Mr. Lindback indicated that as a result of                 
  the survey, three out of every four women in Juneau are pro-                 
  choice.   SB  53 would protect  the constitutional  right to                 
  privacy for  all women  in Alaska  by  preserving a  women's                 
  right  to  choose  regardless  of her  income  level.    Mr.                 
  Lindback  explained  his   organization  believes   Alaska's                 
  constitution includes a very broad "right to privacy" clause                 
  which  protects  a  women's right  to  choose  regardless of                 
  whether she is  rich or poor.   He said the  question really                 
  is, particularly for  low income  women and teenagers  under                 
  the regulations,  "Will they  have access  to safe  abortion                 
  services  or, whether  through desperation,  will  they seek                 
  help in the  back alleys?"   The regulations  will place  an                 
  undue burden on  poor women, particularly in  rural area and                 
  Southeast Alaska, where abortion services are currently  not                 
  available.  Trips  to Anchorage  and Seattle are  prohibited                 
  for  the women and abortion services are not available close                 
  to  home.  The regulations  would make that situation worse.                 
  He urged support for SB 53.                                                  
                                                                               
  JOAN HEIDERSDORF, representing herself,  spoke in opposition                 
  to SB  53.   She explained  that in  SB 53,  the payment  of                 
  elective abortions are being addressed.   The only abortions                 
  that  would  not be  paid for  are those  that refer  to sex                 
  selection and  failure of  birth control.   Ms.  Heidersdorf                 
  urged   that  the   committee  maintain   Governor  Hickel's                 
  regulations.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number  490                                                                  
                                                                               
  BEVERLY BERDAHL,  testified via  teleconference, against  SB
  53.    She  said  she  believes  that  family  planning  and                 
  abortions  have  devalued  children.   Ms.  Berdahl  said as                 
  taxpayers, we can't be a part  of the murder.  She indicated                 
  that she has  documented information  where there are  6,000                 
  cases relating to Planned  Parenthood and when it was  up to                 
  the client to  pay, it was one-third the  cost as opposed to                 
  what the  taxpayers  pay.   She said  Planned Parenthood  is                 
  soaking the taxpayer.  SENATOR SALO asked what the source is                 
  of Ms. Berdahl's statistics.  Ms.  Berdahl explained it is a                 
  book  by   Robert   H.  Ruff,   titled   "Aborting   Planned                 
  Parenthood."                                                                 
                                                                               
  ANN PENCE, testifying from  Soldotna, indicated she supports                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  state  funding  for abortions  and SB  53.   Women  have the                 
  right, including  disadvantaged women,  to choose  abortion.                 
  The U.S. Supreme Court's decision  to grant women the  right                 
  to receive an  abortion should not  apply only to women  who                 
  can afford it.   Ms. Pence said that by ending state funding                 
  for abortions, it  is just the  beginning of the erosion  of                 
  women's rights in general.  She stated she is pro-choice.                    
                                                                               
  REBECCA PERRY, of  Kasilof, explained that Alaska is  one of                 
  twelve remaining  states that  still allows  Medicaid funded                 
  abortions.  Out of the thirty-eight other states that refuse                 
  to provide  public funds,  no exceptions  for rape,  incest,                 
  physical or psychological reasons are made.  She said she is                 
  a member of a  statewide pro-life group that feels  that the                 
  governor's  regulations are  totally  spineless  as  far  as                 
  preventing public funds  from being  used.  The  regulations                 
  will have little  effect of preventing women  from accessing                 
  public funds.  Ms. Perry said she urges the governor and the                 
  legislature to  reconsider the  impact of  those regulations                 
  and make them tougher  if they want to prevent  public funds                 
  from being used.   She said whether she supports the bill or                 
  not  is  of   little  consequence  because  she   feels  the                 
  regulations will have little effect.   Ms. Perry said she is                 
  strongly pro-life  and will  not compromise  and accept  the                 
  regulations.                                                                 
                                                                               
  RUTH  EWIG, Secretary, Citizens for Excellence in Education,                 
  testified  from  Fairbanks.     She  read  a   statement  of                 
  opposition to  SB 53 on  behalf of John  Harbaugh, Director;                 
  Jonathan   Ewig,  Assistant   Director;  and   David  Stack,                 
  Treasurer.  Ms. Ewig explained  that ninety-seven to ninety-                 
  eight  percent  of  pre-born  babies  have been  killed  for                 
  reasons of birth control.   By changing our education system                 
  to  character  development  curriculum which  is  in  use in                 
  different parts  of the country  and which has  reduced teen                 
  pregnancies to zero in California you, as legislators, could                 
  serve  this  state  well  by  using  our  limited  financial                 
  resources most  profitable and investing in  true abstinence                 
  education   with  the   advantages  emphasized   leading  to                 
  responsible planning that does not butcher babies.  Ms. Ewig                 
  continued to  give testimony against  SB 53 and  submitted a                 
  copy of her statement for the committee file.                                
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-2, SIDE B                                                            
  Number 010                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUDY SCULLY,  representing  the  Interior  Christian  Action                 
  Council, testified  in  opposition of  SB 53  and any  other                 
  legislation similar to  it.  She indicated  her organization                 
  believes it is  morally wrong for  the state to require  all                 
  citizens to share  in the responsibility of  killing babies.                 
  Even when children aren't wanted by their own mothers, there                 
  are couples who do want the children.  Ms. Scully urged that                 
  the committee  members vote  "no" on  the bill  and to  move                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  further towards prevention of state funded abortions.                        
                                                                               
  ANNE HARRISON, testifying from Fairbanks,  spoke in favor of                 
  SB  53  and the  continued  funding of  abortion  with state                 
  funds.   She explained that she has spent twenty-seven years                 
  in the health  care profession and was  very deeply involved                 
  in  women's  health  care and  public  health  issues.   Ms.                 
  Harrison said  she has seen  abortions and  has worked  very                 
  closely  with women having abortions.  She said she believes                 
  the post abortion syndrome  is a product of people  that are                 
  trying to instill guilt  and make women feel guilty  for the                 
  actions that they  have chosen at  an earlier time of  their                 
  life.   She said she  is not,  for one  moment, denying  the                 
  dignity of life and the specialness  of babies, but there is                 
  another perspective in  which there  are children born  into                 
  homes that are not  willing and ready to  accept them.   She                 
  urged continued funding for abortions.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 051                                                                   
                                                                               
  LAURIE  OTTO,  representing  herself,  concurred  with  John                 
  Lindback's comments.   She indicated that  she has a  friend                 
  who had to  deal with the  aftermath of having an  abortion.                 
  She said she  doesn't think  that laws prohibiting  abortion                 
  will ever stop them from occurring.   She indicated that she                 
  is strongly  pro-choice.   Ms. Otto  referred to  SB 53  and                 
  asked  the committee to look at page  1, line 11, Section 2,                 
  and said it  annuls the regulations  that were filed by  the                 
  lieutenant governor  on January 20,  1993.  That  would mean                 
  that  if the bill  passes and  becomes law,  new regulations                 
  could  be filed the day  after the bill  passed.  They would                 
  not be annulled and  the process would have to  begin again.                 
  Ms. Otto said  she thinks a  better approach to the  problem                 
  would  be  to  amend the  statutes  to  require payment  for                 
  abortions.  She referred to SB 55, Sections 2, 3, and 6, and                 
  said it includes  the language that could be  added to SB 53                 
  which would accomplish that result.                                          
  SENATOR LEMAN referred to back alley abortions and asked Ms.                 
  Otto if she knows what the  cost differential was or what it                 
  might  be  between those  that  would  be driven  to  such a                 
  provider  of  service and  those  who  would get  it  from a                 
  standard health care provider if  state funding for elective                 
  abortions were withdrawn.   MS.  OTTO discussed a  situation                 
  where a girl who did not  have access to funding attempted a                 
  self  health procedure  and created  a  major injury  to her                 
  body.   It was a  free abortion,  but it  ended up  creating                 
  lifetime problems.  Ms. Otto said  she didn't have money and                 
  abortions were illegal at that time.                                         
                                                                               
  BONNIE L. JACK, testifying from  Anchorage, explained she is                 
  pro-choice  and is in  favor of  SB 53.   She  named several                 
  committees she is a member of  such as Coalition of Alaskans                 
  for Choice Steering Committee, the Alaska Women's  Political                 
  Caucus Steering Committee, and the Republican Association of                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Professional and Business  Women.  Ms. Jack urged passage of                 
  the bill and  asked that legislators not  allow abortions to                 
  go back to being unsafe for poor women.  She said the voters                 
  of Alaska spoke loud and clear in 1982 when they said yes to                 
  state funded abortions.  Ms.  Jack discussed political polls                 
  with  regard to  state  funded abortions.    By not  funding                 
  abortions, poor women  will be punished and  possibly killed                 
  by unsafe illegal back alley butchers, Ms. Jack concluded.                   
                                                                               
  Number 114                                                                   
                                                                               
  MYRNA MAYNARD, testifying from Anchorage, informed committee                 
  members  she  is  married  with  two  children  and  has two                 
  grandchildren.  She explained she  is anti-abortion but very                 
  pro-choice.  Ms. Maynard said  Governor Hickel has made lots                 
  of promises  he couldn't  keep and  at the  end of the  year                 
  decided he needed a peace offering and, unfortunately, chose                 
  poor women to use as a fallout.   She suggested that perhaps                 
  Governor Hickel should concentrate  on making contraceptives                 
  available to all  Alaskans and make sex  education available                 
  to teenagers.   She urged that SB 53  be passed and that the                 
  committee consider Ms. Otto's recommendations.                               
                                                                               
  ILEEN SELF,  Chairman,  Coalition  of Alaskans for  Choice -                 
  Anchorage, was next to testify in support of SB 53.  She                     
  said she would like to remind the committee of the extensive                 
  public  testimony that was  taken on this  issue last summer                 
  and   how   many  people   testified   widely   against  the                 
  regulations.  Abortion is  a legal option and to  single out                 
  abortion  services  for exclusion  when  pre and  post natal                 
  care, childbirth, contraceptives  and sterilization are  all                 
  choices that are supported through  the expenditure of state                 
  funds, is not fair.  She said she shares the concerns of Ms.                 
  Otto and others who have said that  the bill does not go far                 
  enough to protect  women by simply repealing  these specific                 
  regulations that have been adopted.   Ms. Self asked that it                 
  be noted  into  the  public record  that  she  has  observed                 
  members  of  the public  copying  down names,  addresses and                 
  telephone numbers of  people testifying  at the hearing  and                 
  said she hopes  that Mr.  Moffit and others  who have  taken                 
  down names have only the most  honorable of intentions as to                 
  how  they  will  make  uses  of  the  names,  addresses  and                 
  telephone numbers.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 158                                                                   
                                                                               
  THOMAS MOFFIT,  Executive Director, Alaskans Right  to Life,                 
  said he agrees that the regulations are along the lines of a                 
  sham.  He said  the Alaskans Right to Life  Political Action                 
  Committee discussed SB 53 and the  regulations.  He said the                 
  regulations are null  and void and  are not worth the  paper                 
  they are printed as they provide  for the continuing payment                 
  of  abortions  which are  in  the physical  or psychological                 
  health interests of the women.   He said everyone around the                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  state realizes what  kind of a  physician would perform  any                 
  medical procedure on anyone if he/she didn't believe that is                 
  was  in  the  physical or  psychological  interest  of their                 
  patients.    He said  the  regulations  are a  waste  of the                 
  public's time.                                                               
                                                                               
  HARRIET PAPKE, testifying from Homer, indicated that she has                 
  had thirty-five  years of experience  in health care  and is                 
  against SB 53.   She  believes that women  on Medicaid  have                 
  been  lead  to believe  that  abortions  are a  safe  and an                 
  effective  means  of  birth  control.    She  discussed  her                 
  experience of working with a twenty-four year  old women who                 
  had four legal abortions in the last five years.   Ms. Papke                 
  said just  because abortions are legal, it doesn't make them                 
  safe.   She explained that we continue to lie to women about                 
  the  safety of abortion as a means  of birth control and she                 
  resents her tax dollars being used to perpetuate the lie.                    
                                                                               
  CLAUDINE FLOWERS  testified strongly  against state  funding                 
  for abortions.  She said she doesn't want her tax dollars to                 
  pay for killing children or to  saddle women with regret and                 
  emotional pain  that will  stay with  them for  the rest  of                 
  their  lives.   Ms.  Flowers said  each  baby has  their own                 
  bodily  functions  and  they  are  prejudged.   Ms.  Flowers                 
  discussed a situation she was involved  in regarding her own                 
  child and urged that SB 53 not be passed.                                    
                                                                               
  RAMON FLOWERS, testifying  against SB 53, explained  that he                 
  was adopted  and that when  his biological mother  found out                 
  that she was pregnant with him,  she was probably faced with                 
  either aborting him or  putting him up for adoption  and she                 
  chose life.  Mr. Flowers asked the committee make it illegal                 
  for abortions  to be done and  to try to open  more adoption                 
  facilities.  He explained life is  more important than death                 
  and urged that the legislation not be passed.                                
                                                                               
  Number 250                                                                   
                                                                               
  SANDRA JOHNS,  testifying from  Homer, explained  she is  in                 
  support  of  SB  53  and  wants  state  funded  abortions to                 
  continue.  She  said she  believes to cut  funding would  be                 
  unconstitutional.                                                            
                                                                               
  MARY CLARE FOECKE testified in support  of SB 53.  She urged                 
  that  the state  not continue  to  repress those  of limited                 
  means, not continue  to violate a  women's right to  privacy                 
  and to allow  women to exercise their own  human rights.  To                 
  be pro-choice  is not to be  anti life or  anti children and                 
  is, in  fact, essential  for  the celebration  of life  that                 
  women  be given  back the  right to self  determination, Ms.                 
  Foecke concluded.                                                            
                                                                               
  EILEEN MULLEN testified in support of  SB 53.  She indicated                 
  she has two children.  Ms. Mullen said there should be state                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  funding of abortions.  All women  in Alaska deserve a choice                 
  as to what happens with their  body.  Ms. Mullen said it  is                 
  especially  important that  children  are  wanted and  urged                 
  passage of the bill.                                                         
                                                                               
  MARGARET HENEGHAN, testifying from Homer, was in favor of SB
  53.  She said  she doesn't believe in preventing  women from                 
  having an abortion.  SB 53 will allow women of  all economic                 
  classes to make  their personal  choices to have  or not  to                 
  have  an abortion.  By  not allowing state funded abortions,                 
  women  of  lower economic  status  will  be forced  to  have                 
  unwanted unplanned children or a  back alley abortions.   It                 
  creates  hardships  on  the women  and  potential  strain on                 
  Alaska's welfare system.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 279                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARY LENTFER, a thirty-five year Alaskan resident, explained                 
  that she has been in the health field for many years and has                 
  seen what is called "back room abortions."  Ms. Lentfer said                 
  she is in support of SB 53.                                                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR LEMAN said the average cost  that the state pays for                 
  an abortion is  approximately $440 and asked  Ms. Lentfer is                 
  she is aware  of what the  price is of  the so called  "back                 
  alley abortionist."   Ms. Lentfer indicated she  isn't aware                 
  of the cost.                                                                 
                                                                               
  KAREN  HOGAN testified in  support of SB  53.   She said the                 
  decision  to have an  abortion is a  serious adult decision.                 
  Individuals on public  assistance should  and must be  given                 
  the same  respect as they are making this personal difficult                 
  decision.  Abortion is legal and  funding should and must be                 
  continued, she concluded.                                                    
                                                                               
  KIM SMITH, Director, Katchimak  Bay Family Planning  Clinic,                 
  said she is a  mother of three and indicated she  has had to                 
  make the difficult choice of having  an abortion.  Ms. Smith                 
  said  the  women  she  has  spoken  to who  have  chosen  to                 
  terminate their pregnancies have made that decision prior to                 
  getting any kind  of information  as to where  they can  get                 
  that abortion.   They  have already  made their  choices and                 
  denying them access will not change their mind.  She thanked                 
  the committee for hearing her.                                               
                                                                               
  SUSAN KERNS, a  ten-year resident of Alaska and a registered                 
  voter, testified in  support of SB 53.  She said in a larger                 
  scheme of things, the cost of abortions  to state government                 
  is  negligible.  The issue is not  how many abortions or the                 
  amount of money being  spent on state funded abortions,  but                 
  it  is  denying  poor  women   access  to  a  legal  medical                 
  procedure.    She  said  Alaska's  Constitution  has  strong                 
  protection to the  right of privacy  and the right of  equal                 
  access.   The regulations  condemn teens and  poor women  to                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  back alley abortions.   It is  a common statistic that  when                 
  abortions  are  denied,  women  die.   There  was  a  public                 
  referendum on the issue in 1982, sixty percent of the voting                 
  public  voted  to  oppose  limiting  public funds  spent  on                 
  abortion.   She thanked the committee for the opportunity to                 
  testify.                                                                     
                                                                               
  DUANE CHRISTENSEN, testifying from Homer, was against SB 53.                 
  He said  the wording  in the present  regulation really  has                 
  little  if  any  restrictive  quality.    He  said  why  the                 
  legislature and others are fighting  so diligently to remove                 
  the restrictions is beyond him.  Mr. Christensen said Center                 
  for Disease Control  figures show that  ninety-eight percent                 
  of  the abortions  performed are  for convenience.   He said                 
  this means that women are  actively making their choices and                 
  that is that  they choose to  get themselves pregnant.   Mr.                 
  Christensen said he is against SB 53.                                        
                                                                               
  LORIE CHRISTENSEN said she  is against SB 53.   Pregnancy is                 
  preventable from abstinence,  contraceptives, sterilization.                 
  A child doesn't  destroy your life and if your not ready for                 
  the responsibility, there is adoption.  Ms. Christensen said                 
  abortion  is killing  a human  and the state  shouldn't fund                 
  them.  She urged that the  legislature put their energy into                 
  making adoption easier and teaching  abstinence.  Women have                 
  the right to choose before conception, she concluded.                        
                                                                               
  Number 390                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARIE  LUCHACO testified against  SB 53 and  any other bills                 
  that refer to the funding or legalization of abortions.  She                 
  indicated  concern   about  passing  a   bill  through   the                 
  legislature without exposing it to  the light for all public                 
  opinion to be heard as deceitful and deceptive.  Ms. Luchaco                 
  discussed the Planned  Parenthood Program.   She asked  that                 
  the legislators work for all people  and not just a selected                 
  few and their selfish motives.                                               
                                                                               
  TERRI BRAMEL, of Homer, testified in  support of SB 53.  She                 
  said she believes  poor women  have the same  constitutional                 
  rights as  others and she hopes the legislature will protect                 
  them.                                                                        
                                                                               
  PAULA SETTERQUIST testified in favor of SB 53.  She said she                 
  is the mother of one child.  She said she believes that poor                 
  women in  the state  will have  back alley  abortions.   Ms.                 
  Setterquist offered  to some  of the  people listening  that                 
  Alaska doesn't have a state income tax.                                      
                                                                               
  BONNIE GLOVER, testifying from Homer, said she is against SB
  53.                                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 422                                                                   
                                                                               
                                                                               
  KATHY POLK, testifying  in Juneau, explained  she is a  full                 
  blooded Tlingit Indian born and raised  in Juneau.  She said                 
  she can do anything  with her body  that she wants, but  she                 
  does not have the right to kill her children or the right to                 
  have an abortion.  She told the committee that approximately                 
  5,000  children are  killed  a day  through  abortion.   The                 
  decision of abortion lies in the hands of  the law makers of                 
  the state.   Ms.  Polk said  she is  against SB  53 and  any                 
  similar legislation.   She  said she  is sick  and tired  of                 
  hearing the  poor women.   Ms.  Polk said  she had  thirteen                 
  brothers  and  sisters of  which she  was  the oldest.   Her                 
  father was a cab driver and though there wasn't much food on                 
  the table, they ate  and there was love in the  family.  She                 
  asked the committee to have compassion  for the babies.  She                 
  discussed the development  phases of a child  and urged that                 
  SB 53 not be passed.                                                         
                                                                               
  SENATOR ELLIS referred  to Ms. Polk's comment on  being sick                 
  and  tired  of  the poor  women  and  asked  her to  comment                 
  further.  Ms.  Polk explained she  comes from a poor  family                 
  and was a  high school drop out.  Because of persistence and                 
  determination, she was able  to overcome it.  Ms.  Polk said                 
  she believes that every single women has the potential to be                 
  whatever she  wants to be and doesn't have  to be poor.  She                 
  questioned why  women do  not use  available birth  control.                 
  Ms. Polk said if  they get pregnant through rape  or incest,                 
  why  are  we  not going  after  them.    She discussed  some                 
  research she had done in relation to abortion and the amount                 
  of money that the state has paid out.                                        
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-3, SIDE A                                                            
  Number 052                                                                   
                                                                               
  KATHY DENNIS was next to speak on  SB 53.  She explained she                 
  was the eighth child in a low income family  and her natural                 
  father drowned in  a fishing accident.   It would have  been                 
  easy for her mother to be talked into an abortion.  She said                 
  there was close family among her native people that wanted a                 
  baby and  so she  was adopted.   Ms.  Dennis said  she is  a                 
  Tlingit Indian  and a  single parent  of a  daughter who  is                 
  twenty-one  and  a eight  year  old  son.   She  discussed a                 
  situation  where  her daughter  got  pregnant and  the first                 
  thing that she was asked is if  she wanted an abortion.  Ms.                 
  Polk said she now has a two year old grandson.                               
                                                                               
  JOHN  MONAGLE  testified against  SB  53.   He  indicated he                 
  concurs  with Ms.  Polk's and  Ms. Dennis'  testimony.   Mr.                 
  Monagle said  he, as a taxpayer, would like to see the state                 
  get out of the business of killing infants.                                  
                                                                               
  SHERRIE  GOLL  explained  she  is  testifying on  behalf  of                 
  herself, The Alaska Women's Lobby, and for the vast majority                 
  of  Alaskans who support choice and  the protection of their                 
  constitutional  rights.   She said  she  supports SB  53 and                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  would like  to  see  the regulations  annulled.    Ms.  Goll                 
  explained she agrees  with Ms.  Otto's comments on  amending                 
  the  bill.  The  regulations infringe on  women's rights and                 
  discriminates  against Alaskans  based  upon how  much money                 
  they  make.    She said  if  the  body  doesn't address  the                 
  regulations, the state  will be  involved in a  law suit  as                 
  people are not going  to stand for the discrimination.   Ms.                 
  Goll continued to give testimony in  favor of the passage of                 
  SB 53.                                                                       
                                                                               
  MARTHA DEVEREAU testified from Ketchikan against SB 53.  She                 
  indicated she doesn't  support abortion  for any reason  and                 
  would  like  to  see  the  proposed regulations  changed  to                 
  reflect her view.  She discussed  the development of a baby,                 
  the  abortion procedure,  and  the associated  psychological                 
  disturbances.  Ms. Devereau discussed statistics in relation                 
  to abortion.                                                                 
                                                                               
  TERESA CREVIER, testifying from Ketchikan, was in opposition                 
  of SB 53.   She said she would strongly  support regulations                 
  that  truly  restricted  state  funding  of  non-therapeutic                 
  abortions.    She  discussed her  views  regarding President                 
  Clinton's action  on lifting a ban on federally funded fetal                 
  tissue  research.   Ms.  Crevier  explained that  ninety-one                 
  percent of abortions  are preformed in the  first trimester.                 
  She asked  the committee to  please consider the  opening of                 
  this  "Pandora's  Box" by  continuing  the support  of state                 
  funded abortions in any form.                                                
                                                                               
  ELINORE JACOBSEN,  testifying from Ketchikan,  urged support                 
  for SB 53.   She said she supports the right  of every women                 
  to  safe  and  comprehensive  health  care.   The  decisions                 
  concerning  reproductive health  care  is  personal and  the                 
  right to make informed decisions should  be available to all                 
  women.   She  said  choice  and self  determination  is  the                 
  foundation of all  civil rights.  Ms. Jacobsen  continued to                 
  discuss her views in support of SB 53.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 356                                                                   
                                                                               
  HEATHER MUENCH testified in support of SB 53.  She  said the                 
  state currently provides  health care  for low income  women                 
  and it is not  the state's place to make a  so called "world                 
  judgement"  on abortion  for  these low  income women.   Ms.                 
  Muench said  low  income women  are  not any  less  sexually                 
  responsible than women who  can pay for their abortion.   An                 
  abortion is a legal  health care procedure and the  state is                 
  obligated to pay for low income abortions.  Ms. Muench urged                 
  support for SB 53.                                                           
                                                                               
  CHARLES GASS,  a  twenty-nine year  resident  of  Ketchikan,                 
  spoke in opposition to SB 53.   He said he believes the bill                 
  is  unnecessary.   Mr. Gass  said if state  money has  to be                 
  spent,  it should  be spent  in  the direction  of education                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  aimed at preventing unwanted pregnancies.  He urged that the                 
  committee view the seven minute video "Hard Truth."                          
                                                                               
  Number 388                                                                   
                                                                               
  VIRGINIA PHILLIPS explained  she is  a sixty-eight year  old                 
  part  Tlingit woman.   She said she had  an abortion and did                 
  suffer post traumatic  syndrome.  Currently, she  is serving                 
  on the  Alaska Women's  Commission and is  the Alaska  State                 
  Chapter Chair of the National Republican Coalition for Life.                 
  She said since 1985 she has  been the National Right to Life                 
  spokes person  for the  American Indian  and Alaska  Native.                 
  Ms. Phillips said she  opposes SB 53 and money  that belongs                 
  to  all  Alaskans  should  not  be  used  to  fund  elective                 
  procedures for  a small  elect group  of women.   The  "poor                 
  women" argument only  makes sense  if the  state would  also                 
  fund any  elective surgery, including cosmetic  surgery, for                 
  all  Alaskans.  Ms.  Phillips continued to  give reasons she                 
  doesn't support SB 53.                                                       
                                                                               
  MARY SOLTIS testified against  SB 53 for the reason  that in                 
  kindergarten she learned it was wrong to kill people.                        
                                                                               
  ALICE  JOHNSTONE,  representing   herself  and  Sitkans  For                 
  Choice, testified in strong  support of SB  53.  As long  as                 
  there are no contraceptives that  are 100 percent effective,                 
  unplanned and unwanted  pregnancies will occur.   Poor women                 
  should not  be  denied  the access  to  abortions  that  are                 
  available  to  other  women.    Ms.  Johnstone  respectfully                 
  requested  that the committee  amend SB 53  to strengthen it                 
  and   pass   it  out   of   committee  with   a   "do  pass"                 
  recommendation.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 435                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR RIEGER asked  Ms. Clothilde Bahovec to  testify from                 
  Sitka.  He was informed that she had to leave.                               
                                                                               
  MS.  NATASHA CALVIN,  representing  the Sitka  Coalition for                 
  Women's Rights, was  next to  testify in support  of SB  53.                 
  She noted that Ms. Bahovec was going to testify on behalf of                 
  the League  of Women Voters in favor of  SB 53.  She thanked                 
  the HESS Committee  for sponsoring the  bill.  She said  the                 
  Governor's Office has  admitted that  there is no  financial                 
  justification  for  stopping  payment for  abortions.    Ms.                 
  Calvin said  it  is  clearly the  religious  agenda  of  the                 
  Catholic Church.   The HESS Committee should  be researching                 
  ways to provide universal medical  coverage for all Alaskans                 
  and a good place  to start is to continue funding all health                 
  services  for the  disadvantaged,  especially abortions  for                 
  poor women who cannot afford to pay for them.                                
                                                                               
  CHARLES HORAN, Sitkans For  Life, said that the issue  is an                 
  important  issue and  allowing further  testimony should  be                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  considered.   He urged that  the committee members watch the                 
  video "Hard Truth."  Mr. Horan said his organization doesn't                 
  oppose  women's  reproductive  rights, a  women's  right  to                 
  privacy, and  does not oppose equal treatment  for all women                 
  regardless  of  their economic  situation.   Mr.  Horan said                 
  Sitkans  For Life  are opposed  to forcing  citizens of  the                 
  state  to pay for  having a human life  destroyed.  He asked                 
  the  committee  to   consider  whether  the  state   has  an                 
  obligation to pay  for the destruction  of human life or  if                 
  the state should be  guarding the rights of the  weakest and                 
  most helpless individuals in our society - the unborn child.                 
  He continued to give testimony against SB 53.                                
                                                                               
  Number 474                                                                   
                                                                               
  ERNEST LINE, Mat-Su Coalition For Choice, concurred with the                 
  testimony of John Lindback.  He said the funding of abortion                 
  services would be  much less expensive than  affording natal                 
  costs and the  costs of maintaining unwanted  children until                 
  the age  of eighteen.   Mr.  Line said  the personal  and/or                 
  religious biases of the present  administration or any other                 
  administration should not  be imposed on  the people of  the                 
  state.  He urged passage of SB 53.                                           
                                                                               
  KATIE HURLEY testified in  support of SB  53.  She said  she                 
  concurs with the testimony of John Lindback, Ernest Line,                    
  Natasha Calvin, Sherrie Goll, Laurie Otto and the others who                 
  were supportive of the passage of the bill.  She thanked the                 
  committee for hearing her.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 506                                                                   
                                                                               
  RANDALL BURNS, Executive Director, Alaska Affiliation of the                 
  American  Civil Liberties Union, testified from Anchorage in                 
  support of  SB 53.   He said his organization  is opposed to                 
  the regulation  changes that  the Hickel Administration  has                 
  proposed  which  would  deny  any  Alaska  women  on  public                 
  assistance the right to terminate  their pregnancy.  He said                 
  they are opposed  as it would  be unconstitutional.  In  the                 
  recent U.S. Supreme  Court decision in  the case of  Planned                 
  Parenthood versus Casey,  the court recognized  "The ability                 
  of women to  participate equally in the  economic and social                 
  lives of the nation has been facilitated by their ability to                 
  control their reproductive lives."   Mr. Burns explained his                 
  organization plans to  bring suit against the state  to halt                 
  implementation of the regulations.   Action on SB 53  by the                 
  legislature could  also avoid significant litigation  by the                 
  state.  He urged support of SB 53.                                           
                                                                               
  DONNA HURDLE, Executive Director, Planned Parents of Alaska,                 
  testified in  support of SB 53.  She  said Alaska has a long                 
  tradition of  respecting the  right to  privacy and  women's                 
  decisions about their  reproductive health.   There is  also                 
  the long tradition of nondiscrimination with respect to that                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  right.    She urged  the committee  to support  SB 53.   Ms.                 
  Hurdle explained her organizations three clinics  serve many                 
  Medicaid  eligible  women.    Some  of them  have  unplanned                 
  pregnancies  which   if  continued,   would  create   severe                 
  hardships for them  and their family.   Many of them  simply                 
  cannot  afford  the cost  of  an  abortion.   She  discussed                 
  statistics  and  survey results  relating  to the  number of                 
  people  who  support  state funding  of  abortions  for poor                 
  women.  Ms.  Hurdle commended the committee  for introducing                 
  SB 53 and urged that it be passed.                                           
                                                                               
  TOM SWANNER, testifying from Anchorage, spoke against SB 53.                 
  He  said  a  women's  reproductive  rights  has  to  do with                 
  ovaries,  fallopian  tubes  and the  uterus.    Once  she is                 
  pregnant, we are  talking about  a human that  is alive  and                 
  ought to  be protected.   Mr.  Swanner discussed  situations                 
  relating  to  delivering a  baby  and  finding a  baby  in a                 
  dumpster while a police officer.                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-3, SIDE B                                                            
  Number 001                                                                   
                                                                               
  Mr. Swanner urged  the committee not  to pass  SB 53 and  to                 
  vote "no" on abortions of any kind.                                          
                                                                               
  JOANNE SWANNER,  Tom Swanner's wife, also  testified against                 
  SB 53.  She said in twenty years 100,000 Alaskan babies have                 
  died violent deaths at the hands  of abortionists.  The idea                 
  that there are safe abortions is a lie.  A back alley  and a                 
  front alley  abortion  are exactly  the  same things.    She                 
  explained  that  abortion  is  the  most  dangerous  medical                 
  procedure of  our time.  Ms. Swanner discussed the emotional                 
  trauma following an abortion.  The reason Planned Parenthood                 
  is supporting SB 53  is because one of their basic  goals is                 
  to  eliminate the poor and minority  and abortion has proven                 
  to  be  a  method  of  achieving  this goal.    Ms.  Swanner                 
  indicated we need to stop the funding of abortions in Alaska                 
  and make all killing  of babies illegal.  She asked that the                 
  committee not pass SB 53.                                                    
                                                                               
  PAMELA  BEILFUSS,  testifying against  SB  53, said  she was                 
  under  the  impression  that during  the  last  election the                 
  state's representatives  were going  to Juneau  with a  firm                 
  commitment to  cut state spending  and to  bring the  budget                 
  under control.  She said she was very upset to find that the                 
  legislators  want  to  reinstate  state  funding  which  the                 
  governor is trying  to limit.   Ms. Beilfuss said she  feels                 
  that women who believe that  they cannot afford an  abortion                 
  need to find  private funds  for their use  or review  their                 
  options  more closely  before the  child is conceived.   She                 
  discussed  the  financial  difficulties  of  living in  bush                 
  areas.                                                                       
                                                                               
  LORRAINE FERRELL, a mother of two children, explained she is                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  pro-life.  She  said she believes  that abortion is  morally                 
  wrong  and  it robs  a human  life.   Ms.  Ferrell discussed                 
  statistics relating to the state funding of  abortions.  She                 
  urged that the committee not support SB 53.                                  
                                                                               
  LEILA WISE,  testifying from  Anchorage,  said she  supports                 
  public funding of abortions for poor women.  She said public                 
  funding  is an investment in women's  lives, in their future                 
  and their family's  future.  She  explained that one out  of                 
  four children in  the United  States lives in  poverty.   By                 
  allowing  women  to make  their  own choices,  regardless of                 
  income, can we help in the vicious  cycle of poverty to make                 
  sure that all children are treated with dignity, respect and                 
  love.  Ms.  Wise said she  shares Laurie Otto's concern  and                 
  encouraged that the committee amend the bill to specifically                 
  continue public funding of  abortions for poor women  and to                 
  ensure equity.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 120                                                                   
                                                                               
  The next person to testify was  CAROL NILSON.  She requested                 
  the  committee to  oppose state funding  of abortions.   She                 
  said as a Christian,  she takes her ethical principles  from                 
  the Bible.   Ms. Nilson  read quotes  from the  Bible.   She                 
  urged opposition to SB 53 and similar legislation.                           
                                                                               
  EVELYN  FRISK gave testimony in support of  SB 53.  She said                 
  she believes all  reproductive choices  should be viewed  as                 
  health issues and  they are and  should be available to  all                 
  women in the state.  It is time to stop using regulations on                 
  legislation  to  discriminate and  it  is time  to recognize                 
  women's full personhood rights  and values as equal to  that                 
  of men.                                                                      
                                                                               
  KRIS  GROSE,  President  of  Alaska  Right  to  Life of  the                 
  Interior, said  her organization  remains neutral  on SB  53                 
  because they  believe  the regulations  provided nothing  to                 
  begin with.  She referred to  literature before her and said                 
  it  states  that  before  Rowe v.  Waid,  ninety  percent of                 
  abortions  were performed  by  licensed  physicians.   Women                 
  aren't  forced  into abortion,  they  choose abortion.   She                 
  explained the literature also states that ninety-one percent                 
  of  women undergoing  abortions  do  suffer  post  traumatic                 
  syndrome.     The   problem   with   gathering   statistical                 
  information is there is no clearinghouse  for it.  Ms. Grose                 
  continued to discuss her views regarding abortion.                           
                                                                               
  Number 180                                                                   
                                                                               
  SUSAN  FLOCKE testified  against  SB 53.    She referred  to                 
  people testifying on  women's choices  and rights, and  said                 
  the  child  has a  right to  life.   She  informed committee                 
  members that she worked in an orphanage in Romania and there                 
  were some  children that  wouldn't have been  there if  they                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  hadn't been born  during Ceaucescu's time when  abortion was                 
  forbidden.  Ms. Flocke asked, "Where does the protection for                 
  the children end?  Do we have to wait for their first scream                 
  or should  they be protected from the  point of conception."                 
  Ms. Flocke said a right to  abortion in future years lessens                 
  the chances for the children to have a right to life.                        
                                                                               
  SENATOR ELLIS referred to Ms. Flocke's experience in Romania                 
  with the orphanages  and asked if  she would favor a  social                 
  policy in the  U.S. to compel women  to have children  or to                 
  outlaw abortion which was the  Ceaucescu policy.  Ms. Flocke                 
  said  to  outlaw  abortion  doesn't  compel  women  to  have                 
  children  because there are alternative and preventive ways.                 
  Senator Ellis discussed  the Romanian and communist  Chinese                 
  policies regarding abortion  and said things can  get out of                 
  hand  when  the  government  has  that kind  of  power  over                 
  individuals lives.   Ms. Flocke  said it should  never be  a                 
  government issue.  She discussed  some situations in Romania                 
  of women who lived through the Ceaucescu regime.                             
                                                                               
  PAT DENNY testified  in opposition to SB  53.  She  said the                 
  regulations are not strong enough.  She urged the  committee                 
  members  to  review  the video.    Ms.  Denny  discussed her                 
  experience of how she testified  twenty years ago before the                 
  legislature  in  the  State  of  Washington  regarding   the                 
  abortion issue.   She noted she has been a social worker for                 
  over forty years.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 288                                                                   
                                                                               
  ALESHIA PORTER, testifying in Juneau, informed the committee                 
  she is twenty-three years old.   She said she is in the  age                 
  and  economic bracket  that  will be  most  affected by  the                 
  legislation.  She said  she has seen friends  and colleagues                 
  who required  abortions when  necessary.   When her  friends                 
  couldn't  afford abortions,  they were  fortunate  enough to                 
  have friends who  leant fiscal support.   Many of the  women                 
  were in the lower economic brackets  and could not support a                 
  child in any form had they continued their pregnancies.  Ms.                 
  Porter said her concern is for  her friends, herself and the                 
  women without  the necessary means to afford an abortion who                 
  must shoulder the overwhelming burden  of an unwanted child.                 
  SENATOR  LEMAN  asked   Ms.  Porter  when  an   abortion  is                 
  necessary.   Ms. Porter  said in  one case  an abortion  was                 
  necessary when a  birth control method was used  and failed.                 
  She explained her friend  was in no economic position  or in                 
  an  emotional  position to  support  the children.   Senator                 
  Leman said the decision wasn't  based on the life/health  of                 
  the  mother, incest or rape.  Ms.  Porter said in some cases                 
  it was a health choice, but  it was also an economic choice.                 
  Senator  Leman  and  Ms.  Porter  continued to  discuss  the                 
  abortion issue.                                                              
                                                                               
  SENATOR SALO asked Ms. Porter if she believes that there are                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  advocates for abortion  trying to convince people  to choose                 
  an abortion.   Ms. Porter  said she has  never seen  someone                 
  actively counsel for abortions.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 419                                                                   
                                                                               
  DEBORAH LUPER testified against  SB 53.  She said  she hopes                 
  that  the  committee  will hold  additional  public hearings                 
  because  abortion is a  divisive issue and  the residents of                 
  Alaska deserve time to make their comments.  Ms. Luper urged                 
  that the committee watch  the video "Hard Truth."   She said                 
  that the  medical  funds that  are  in the  General  Medical                 
  Relief Assistance Program are to further the health and well                 
  being of the baby  and the mother.   Ms. Luper continued  to                 
  discuss hardships during her childhood.   She indicated that                 
  she had gotten pregnant  and chose not to have  an abortion.                 
  Every medical  person she  spoke to  advocated abortion  and                 
  nobody ever supported her  decision to have her child.   Ms.                 
  Luper said there  are over  a million people  who apply  for                 
  babies, a  vast majority  never get  the chance  to adopt  a                 
  child.   When they do, they have to  leave the country.  She                 
  explained  if the  adopted parents are  white, they  are not                 
  allowed  to adopt  black babies  or allowed to  adopt Alaska                 
  native babies without  the expressed consent of  that racial                 
  group.  Ms. Luper said oil revenues belong to the people  of                 
  the state and it is wrong  to force our citizens to pay  for                 
  an act that  they believe  is morally wrong.   She said  she                 
  feels  that if the pro-abortion  faction wants women to have                 
  access to abortion, they need to  fund it themselves and not                 
  ask the people of Alaska to do it.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 519                                                                   
                                                                               
  CARL STURMAN, testifying from Soldotna, was in opposition to                 
  SB  53.   He  discussed watching  a  video entitled  "Silent                 
  Scream."  Mr.  Sturman said abortion has to  do with a human                 
  life and that life should be protected at all costs.                         
                                                                               
  CAROLE HOOVER, testifying from Juneau,  spoke against SB 53.                 
  She  said  she   doesn't  believe   that  anywhere  in   the                 
  constitution does it say  that women have the right  to stop                 
  life.                                                                        
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-4, SIDE A                                                            
  Number 001                                                                   
                                                                               
  Ms. Hoover discussed a situation where she had a child later                 
  in life  and when she recognized that she was pro-life.  She                 
  said  she  worries  that  the  figures for  minority  native                 
  children are higher  than the average.  She noted  she has a                 
  grandchild  that  is a  minority.    Ms. Hoover  urged  that                 
  children be educated.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 092                                                                   
                                                                               
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN RIEGER indicated that written testimony he receives                 
  will be entered into the committee file as a part record.                    
                                                                               
  SENATOR LEMAN said that it would be inappropriate to move SB
  53 as he believes that there  were a number of issues raised                 
  and  there  is testimony  that the  committee hasn't  had an                 
  opportunity to read.   He said it would also  be appropriate                 
  for the  committee to  review information off  of the  video                 
  tape.  Senator Leman said he recognizes that of those people                 
  present at the  meeting, he  probably represents a  minority                 
  viewpoint.  Nevertheless, it is important that the committee                 
  members receive full information and  cast an informed vote.                 
  Senator Leman said  if there  is a motion  to discharge  the                 
  bill from committee, he will  object for the above mentioned                 
  reasons.    He  said  a  lot  of people  testified  and  the                 
  preponderance of testimony does  not necessarily support the                 
  regulations as written,  but the testimony opposes  the bill                 
  which would annul the regulations.  More needs to be done to                 
  enhance  the lives of citizens.  There are ways to care more                 
  about them and to provide for them.  Providing state funding                 
  for abortions is not  the way to do it.   Senator Leman said                 
  he is concerned  with what he  sees as  the potential for  a                 
  cultural genocide.   He believes  that Alaska natives  are a                 
  targeted  group.   Both  Vice  President Gore  and President                 
  Clinton  have  expressed  interest in  reducing  and  making                 
  abortion  rare.  Paying  for them with  public funds doesn't                 
  help us achieve that goal.                                                   
                                                                               
  Senator Leman said he believes  some better approaches would                 
  be to work toward measures that accomplishes what should  be                 
  accomplished such  as passing "parental  notice" legislation                 
  and information to  help make informed decisions.   It would                 
  be better  for the  committee to  be doing  things that  are                 
  positive  and  constructive than  to  be taking  the present                 
  approach.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 173                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR  SALO  stated  that  she   is  appreciative  of  the                 
  testimony given.  She said that  what she was impressed with                 
  at the present meeting  is that there was some  focus on the                 
  things that both  sides of the  issue have in common  rather                 
  than just  the differences.   She said there  was discussion                 
  about education and birth control  information and she urged                 
  that  those  people  who  testified  be  involved  when  the                 
  committees and school districts  are developing those health                 
  and education programs.  She said  they should be there when                 
  information  about  birth control  is  made available.   She                 
  noted sometimes that has met with problems.                                  
                                                                               
  Senator  Salo indicated  she  doesn't  believe that  Alaskan                 
  Natives  are victimized  by  the availability  of abortions,                 
  whether they are  publicly or privately funded.   The Alaska                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Native  population  as  well  as  others are  victimized  by                 
  poverty.   She said  of course  they show  up on  statistics                 
  relating  to funded abortions  in a greater  rate because of                 
  that poverty.   An  issue  Senator Salo  said wasn't  talked                 
  about in great detail was the right of privacy in regards to                 
  the regulations.  Currently, if you were a victim of rape or                 
  incest, whether you were poor or rich you could very quietly                 
  terminate  that  pregnancy.   She  said  under  the proposed                 
  regulations,  she assumes a  women would have  to prove that                 
  the  crime  had   occurred  to  somebody.    That  is  twice                 
  victimizing  the victim  of a  sexual crime.   Senator  Salo                 
  stated she is supportive of SB  53 because she is supportive                 
  of equal access and the right of privacy.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 217                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR SHARP said he  feels that the bill had  an extensive                 
  HESS  hearing and  it is  assigned  to two  other committees                 
  where more testimony can be taken.  He said he believes that                 
  there will  be considerable  input in  the future.   Senator                 
  Sharp  said  the  committee  should  consider  giving  other                 
  legislators a chance  to make a decision on the  matter.  He                 
  asked  the  chairman what  his intentions  are  as far  as a                 
  motion to pass the bill out of committee.                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN RIEGER  asked what  the pleasure  of the  committee                 
  was.                                                                         
                                                                               
  SENATOR  SHARP made a  motion to  move the  bill out  of the                 
  Senate  HESS  Committee  with   individual  recommendations.                 
  SENATOR  LEMAN   objected.     He   said  he   does  see   a                 
  representative  from the  Department  of Health  and  Social                 
  Services who may  be able to answer  Senator Salo's question                 
  relating to what the procedure would be for a victim of rape                 
  and incest.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 260                                                                   
                                                                               
  ELMER LINDSTROM,  Special Assistant, said  he would hesitate                 
  to give  a definitive  answer  on the  question although  it                 
  would  be  his reading  that Senator  Salo  is right  that a                 
  therapeutic abortion  would be allowed  to be paid  for with                 
  state funds.   There would have to be a determination of the                 
  basis of why it would be therapeutic.  Mr. Lindstrom said it                 
  would be  a  matter  between  the  individual  and,  in  all                 
  likelihood,  the  physician.     That  is  subject   to  the                 
  confidentiality  that  exists  between  a  physician  and  a                 
  patient.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Senator Leman  said Mr. Lindstrom's response doesn't trouble                 
  him because he doesn't believe that it is any different from                 
  any  other  process   in  a   patient  -  medical   provider                 
  relationship.  If the claim of rape or incest is made, there                 
  may be others involved in the  reporting.  It would have  to                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  be  reported  to  the  law  enforcement  agencies  which  he                 
  believes would be  totally appropriate.  He  said he doesn't                 
  think the victim would be twice victimized.                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN RIEGER formally  closed the public hearing.   There                 
  being  no  further discussion,  a  roll  call was  taken  on                 
  Senator Sharp's motion  to move the  bill out of the  Senate                 
  HESS  Committee.   Senator  Leman  voted "no,"  and Senators                 
  Rieger, Sharp, Duncan, Ellis and Salo voted "yes."  Chairman                 
  Rieger noted that  Senator Miller's absence was excused.  So                 
  the motion passed with a vote of five to one, one excused.                   
  Number 295                                                                   
                                                                               
  Chairman Rieger  adjourned the Senate HESS Committee meeting                 
  at 5:07 p.m.                                                                 
                                                                               

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